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misterd51
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 57
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Posted: Mar Tue 14, 2006 7:46 pm Post subject: Reno compared to Gold Country Casino |
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John Muller sugested people might be interested in my stop at the Gold Country Casino outside Oroville, ca. First let me say I have been coming to Reno off and on since 1973. I had heard the pay tables of the Indian Casinos in Ca. were far below what is offered in Reno. Well the wife and I had lunch in Oroville and were taking the long way home through Forbestown. We stopped at the Gold Country Casino outside Oroville and I brought up the pay tables for 25 cent Video Poker. Instead of 9 / 6 or close to it. The Full House paid 7 for 1, the Flush 5 for one and get this 3 of a kind paid 2 for one. I have never seen below 3 for one in Reno. Plus there was no progressive for a Royal or 4 ace with a 2, 3 or 4 kicker as can often be found in Reno. The minimus Black Jack table available was $10.00. Besides that there was no Crap table or Sportsbook. No wonder I have kept coming to Reno all these years with what the California Indian Casinos have to offer. I wish I could be at CalNeva for the start of March madness, this will be the first time in 4 years I haven't but hope to be up next week for the Sweet Sixteen and Elite Eight. Finally sometimes Cocktail service in Reno is faster then I can drink beer and sometimes it is a little slow, but again compared to the Indian Casino where they bring around trays of Coffee, Tea, and pitchers of coke to serve, it is always great. So VP players and all other Reno Gamblers I hope you realize how good you have it compared to the Indian Casinos in California
Best of lucky always and hope to see you all soon. _________________ misterd |
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RenoLady
Joined: 23 Feb 2006 Posts: 316
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Posted: Mar Wed 15, 2006 8:25 am Post subject: |
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Sounds pretty much like our "local" Indian Casinos. We have been to Thunder Valley, Jackson, Cache Creek and Colusa to check out the pay tables. All are bad, but at least Colusa has open machines and jackpots that pay once in a while. The other places, even with their poor odds, are packed on weekends, with people fighting to throw their money away. Unbelievable. We pretty much avoid them, and save our gambling for Reno.
Last year a marketing exec, at Atlantis, engaged us in conversation about the Indian Casinos. We told him we tried them, found them wanting, and now rarely go to them, coming to Reno instead. I told him they should address the different odds/payouts in their advertising, he said they didn't want to antagonize them. Huh? Anyway, he bought us lunch at the Oyster bar, nice. |
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CaSwede
Joined: 28 Feb 2006 Posts: 866
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Posted: Mar Wed 15, 2006 10:19 am Post subject: |
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I have been to several of the Indian Casinos: Thunder Valley, Jackson, Black Oak, Palace etc, and I just shake my head at the people playing these machines. VP is difficult to find, and the paytable are terrible- Thunder is the worst. If you want a beer........dig in your poket, cause you are going to pay. No com'p drinks on liquor.
I am surprised these people have not run out of money yet! |
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stan_allen
Joined: 19 Dec 2005 Posts: 1129
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Posted: Mar Wed 15, 2006 10:59 am Post subject: Chief runs-with-money |
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Thanks for confirming what I had suspected.
I'm all for tribal self-sufficiency, and I don't believe the government has any business regulating the manner in which we choose to waste our money, but these casinos really should be run in a competitive manner, and it seems as though they have been riding on nothing but their location and novelty factor. Once the 'freshness' factor wears off, which I like to suspect has already begun to happen, the jig will be up. In the end, a casino has to offer decent odds and payouts, or they will eventually be passed by.
The comment from the 'marketing' guy you mentioned is quite revealing - since when have businesses cared about "Antagonizing" crummy competition? Are they actually so fearful of appearing critical of a 'Native American' endeavor that they won't point out the obvious? During the time when the battles over the creation of these casinos were being waged, we heard non-stop accusations that the forces lobbying against the Indian casino were all Vegas and Nevada-based interests - if that were true, then why would they now be holding back their attack dogs?
I thought casino people were a little more cutthroat than that. Perhaps they prefer to lie low, wait until people wake up and discover what a better deal they get in Reno and return, by which time some of the smaller and less durable casinos will have folded? Stranger things have happened... |
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RenoLady
Joined: 23 Feb 2006 Posts: 316
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Posted: Mar Wed 15, 2006 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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That's what surprised me about his wimpy response, un-Nevada-like. I even suggested they have billboards that say: "you've tried them, now come back home where you can win!"
I believe a lot of the dollars going through the local places (around Sacramento) we're a product of the housing boom of the last 4 years. Now that it has flattened and started the decline, the Indian Casinos should start feeling it. Hopefully this will make folks a little more savvy in their choice of venue. Choosing to head to Reno for gambling, free drinks and a chance to win some money back! |
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Quinc
Joined: 18 Dec 2005 Posts: 32
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Posted: Mar Wed 15, 2006 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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plus indians dont legally have to tell you there odds on anything. where as in nevada they do. so im sure most people think its all the same. _________________ Don't play blackjack that pays 6:5..Changing that one rule, reducing blackjack payouts from 3:2 to 6:5 adds a substantial 1.39% to the casino's advantage. |
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RenoLady
Joined: 23 Feb 2006 Posts: 316
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Posted: Mar Wed 15, 2006 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, they see the same penny machine and assume the pay-out will be the same. |
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llkraus
Joined: 28 Dec 2005 Posts: 104 Location: Tyler, TX
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Posted: Mar Thu 16, 2006 10:16 am Post subject: |
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I was driving through southern Oklahoma a few months ago and stopped to play blackjack at an Indian casino. Sat down, got my chips, and noticed everyone was placing a 50 cent bet above the circle, which was then collected (before the cards were dealt) by the dealer. It was the first time I had ever seen an "ante" bet in blackjack.
According to the dealer, it was a state law. Oklahoma would not allow blackjack in Indian Casinos unless they collected a 50 ante on every hand for the "school children of Oklahoma." At a certain point (I didn't stay long enough or bet high enough to find out), the ante went to a dollar.
And, to top it all off, they used continuous shuffle machines, where they just fed the played cards back into the machine after the hand.
Needless to say, I haven't been back to any Oklahoma casinos since. I can drive two hours to the East and find Shreveport/Bossier, with some of the best blackjack rules to be found, or I can drive two hours North, to Oklahoma and get really ripped off. Go East, young man!
At any rate, I'm looking forward to my November trip to Reno/Tahoe (232 days, but who's counting?).
llk _________________ Larry L. Kraus
Tyler, TX |
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RenoLady
Joined: 23 Feb 2006 Posts: 316
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Posted: Mar Thu 16, 2006 10:26 am Post subject: |
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Was the ante paid regardless of the outcome of the hand? I know in Pai gow they take a percentage if you win only.
The percentage of knowledgable gamblers to the un-informed gambler must be very widespread. |
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llkraus
Joined: 28 Dec 2005 Posts: 104 Location: Tyler, TX
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Posted: Mar Thu 16, 2006 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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RenoLady wrote: | Was the ante paid regardless of the outcome of the hand? I know in Pai gow they take a percentage if you win only. |
No, the ante was collected from each player before the hand was dealt. Which means you lose 50 cents before you start playing. (And, if you win, your five dollar win is really 4.50.) 50 cents per hand, over several hours, mounts up. I haven't figured what it does to the house advantage (they would argue it isn't a house advantage, because the money goes to the state), but it has to lower your expected return significantly.
llk _________________ Larry L. Kraus
Tyler, TX |
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stan_allen
Joined: 19 Dec 2005 Posts: 1129
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Posted: Mar Thu 16, 2006 1:20 pm Post subject: "Won't someone PLEASE think of the children?!" |
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So the fifty cents was just a fee collected for the privilege of playing one hand of freshly-shuffled-deck blackjack, with the fee supposedly going to "The Children".
This is what I meant about the government not meddling in the ways we dispose of our disposable income. I'd like to know how much of that fifty cents actually reaches some of "The Children", and even more importantly, in what form.
Anytime you hear the phrase "The Children" being invoked, watch your wallet.
Sorry, this is probably a topic for some other board, but then again, it once again demonstrates how superior Reno is for your gambling dollar. |
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llkraus
Joined: 28 Dec 2005 Posts: 104 Location: Tyler, TX
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Posted: Mar Thu 16, 2006 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: "Won't someone PLEASE think of the children?!" |
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stan_allen wrote: | So the fifty cents was just a fee collected for the privilege of playing one hand of freshly-shuffled-deck blackjack, with the fee supposedly going to "The Children".
This is what I meant about the government not meddling in the ways we dispose of our disposable income. I'd like to know how much of that fifty cents actually reaches some of "The Children", and even more importantly, in what form.
Anytime you hear the phrase "The Children" being invoked, watch your wallet.
Sorry, this is probably a topic for some other board, but then again, it once again demonstrates how superior Reno is for your gambling dollar. |
Yep! Of course, the problem even goes deeper than that. In other states, where proceeds from the lottery were to be used to support schools, just the opposite happened. The schools received all of the money from the lottery, as promised, but the state appropriation went down by the same amount that the lottery brought in, meaning a net gain of $0 for schools. And, after the public stopped the initial frenzy of lottery ticket buying, and the income from sales of tickets decreased, the schools were left with a loss.
I don't mind supporting public institutions, when they are needed and beneficial. However, I do hate for public officials to lie to me and tell me something is being done to help, when it's simply not true and they know it.
</rant>
llk _________________ Larry L. Kraus
Tyler, TX |
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misterd51
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 57
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Posted: Mar Thu 16, 2006 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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When gambling was first legalized in the Indian Casinos I went to Feather Falls which is also by Oroville, Ca. It was probably about a year after it was opened. Anywas I put $40 on the table and the dealer asked how much I wanted to bet. I said the whole 40. Well I drew a 16 against the dealers 8, I hit and drew a four and the dealer turned over 18. She paid me $78.00, I asked why I wasn't paid 80. The pit boss came over and said there was a 1 dollar fee for the bet making it a 39 dollar bet. I beleive it had something to do with state law at that time. I know it is no longer that way at the Indian Casinos in California however I left and have never played Blackjack at the Indian Casinos here again. On a better note who remembers the old Nevada Club and Harolds Club? I had some great times in Reno in those places when they were around. _________________ misterd |
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irishsetter
Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 15
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Posted: Mar Fri 17, 2006 8:23 am Post subject: |
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I live in the Central Valley of CA and have several tribal casinos within a 1.5 hour drive. I've never been in one of them. So in short, I completely agree with what everyone is saying. However, Reno is not offering any impetus for folks to drive the extra hour and half (from Thunder Valley) to Reno.... assuming no snow.
Despite poor gambling conditions at the tribal casinos, a trip to Reno requires much more effort and tangible expense.
A Californian can take a trip to a tribal joint, gamble an hour or two, eat a meal and be home before midnight. For most, a trip to Reno means an overnight stay and 3 additional hours of driving time minimum(and gas). I have driven to Reno and back in a 12 hour time frame and it was NO picnic . So, to get to the "better payoffs," in Reno requires more time, and more up front expenditures in most cases. Have the Reno casinos been doing anything to lessen the impact of those issues? No. Hotel room offers are average at best, only a couple of outlying casinos regularly comp gas. Even if a gambler loses an extra hundred a night at the local tribal joint because of the bad payoffs, they're still ahead when you consider a trip to Reno will cost them a hotel night, an extra 1/2 tank of gas (at least), and a couple of extra meals.
As far as marketing goes, I'm baffled by Reno's lame efforts as well. Thunder Valley is killing them every winter with the "No Chains Required" billboards. Short, to the point, and thus far, very effective. |
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RenoLady
Joined: 23 Feb 2006 Posts: 316
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Posted: Mar Mon 20, 2006 11:07 am Post subject: |
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You're right about the lack of incentives coming from Reno to convince folks to make the drive. Unless I'm on a comped weekend (or lesser rate) Saturday arrivals are difficult to get and costly. Most of the time we stay in Carson City because they do not up their rates for the weekend.
Some free meals and discounted rooms would go along way in filling their hotels. |
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